RCMP

[DT]

As a member of the RCMP I get a daily report of media releases. Thought everyone would find this interesting.

Mounties stymied by lack of new recruits
Toronto - The RCMP is launching a "comprehensive" look at its recruiting as it tries to reverse a steady drop in job applications at a time when mass retirements are beginning to thin the force's ranks. Across Canada, police departments are grappling with the largest demand for personnel in decades - the result of Baby Boomers retiring in waves - and a shrinking pool of men and women eager to join the thin blue line. The RCMP issued a tender recently for a study, expected to cost up
to $250,000, on its recruiting system and a strategy for making the program more efficient. The force has faced a drop in the number of applications over the last several years because of changing demographics, limited marketing by the RCMP, a shortage of skilled
recruiting staff and a long, rigorous hiring process, according to tender documents. RCMP officials could not provide long-term statistics yesterday, but said the number of applicants taking the agency's aptitude test had declined to about 7,700 in 2002-03 from more than
9,000 two years earlier. Among other things, the study will look at modifying the procedure applicants must follow to get into the Mounties. From application to the start of training can take six to 18 months, due to background checks and other hurdles, said Sgt. Jocelyn Mimeault. "The RCMP recognizes that it must do more to convey the message that it is recruiting," added Sgt. Mimeault. (National Post A2, Regina Leader-Post
A3)

DT

[Guest78]

DT...I thought you were an applicant waiting for 2004 to write the rpat again? Did I inhale too much hair spray this morning?

[RJB2004]

Guest-Guest78 said:

DT...I thought you were an applicant waiting for 2004 to write the rpat again? Did I inhale too much hair spray this morning?

DT is a civilian member of the RCMP

[RJB2004]

DT said:

As a member of the RCMP I get a daily report of media releases. Thought everyone would find this interesting.

Thanks DT.. as a person with internet access I get a daily National Post with the exact same article
Good to know for us applicants though. Thanks.

[ronin3333]

In regards to finding a person who failed their poly....here I am. I must agree that before my poly I thought the same way as most of you, as long as you don't lie you will pass. Well thats not the case, you must also make sure you have a clear mind and you are healthy. I spiked on two questions that i had absolutly no idea why other then that i had cleared my throat and the polygrapher said "If you do that again you will create a false reading", so of course when I felt the need to do it again I began to stress out and my blood presure shot up. After a lengthy Srgt. interview the next day, he told me that even though I scored high on all my test and had great work exp. they thought I was being deceptive on the poly. Two weeks later I received a very thin letter in the mail...perminent dismissle of file. I am currently awaiting my RCMP interview (the other was for a muni. job) so now I have a real battle to fight to prove to the RCMP that I am trustworthy. All I can say is that until you've been screwed by the poly. you really can't denounce the people who have, just think how you'd feel if you could never apply for a job in Law Enforcement again...take it from me it really sucks. Thanks for letting me vent.

P.S. Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I was typing this very fast.

[Guest78]

ronin3333....thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, there seems to be a pro and anti poly debate. Since the rcmp doesn't have the poly yet....there are few poly experiences on this thread. So, most of us have not heard of many people failing it, but know that many pass it, because we know that PD's with the poly (Calgary, Vancouver, Peel Regional) have poly passing officers.

So my point is that stories like yours are good to hear. You don't come off as a raving loonie. I hope other people that failed the poly, especially when the rcmp gets it into full gear, post their stories. It might help enlighten us.

On another note, you probably see the benifits of the poly, but would you still support the rcmp implementing it now that you have seen the negative side of it? Do you think a few false-negative polys outweighs the untrustworthy people it may get?

[MPOV]

Ronin3333,

I have tried to tell others here of the same experience I had and apparently you just fell victim to also. I am wearing the identical shoes and can't tell you how sorry I am it happened to someone else after the screaming I have been doing here to try and prevent it from happening to the people on this board.

I failed CPS poly and applied to RCMP just like you are doing. There is nothing you can do to prevent the muni force from divuldging your failed poly results to the RCMP. The RCMP are apparently going to adopt the joke called the polygraph. Most likely the RCMP are going to take the poly results as word and you will be DQ from the RCMP also. I was at the end of the RCMP process, waiting for the call. Out of nowhere I get the thin letter of deferal. I know it was the CPS poly but noone at CPS or the RCMP will tell me directly. The CPS recruiters lied to me and told me they believed my repeal and would not divuldge the questionable info to any other forces I applied to. BS! Your only course of action is to fight the muni poly results. GET A LAWYER! NOW! Fight to get the videotape, fight to get the poly results and get the failed results exponged from your muni record or get a retest and use CM's to pass. I can't stress enough how one false negative poly result will crush any hopes of you ever getting into another force. Don't trust the muni recruiters if they tell you they will exponge your failed poly. Get a laywer and get it in writing.

Put your RCMP application on hold until you get the poly issue resolved. If you don't the failed poly will crush any other applications ! PERIOD.

To the others here. I can't stress enough the importance of learning about the poly. It is a sham and a fail will crater your hopes of ever becoming a police officer forever.

[MPOV]

Guest 78,

You are deaming if you nievely think the poly is 100% accurate at weeding out undesirables while in the process only sacrificing a few false positives.

Do your homework people! The poly on average labels 50% of the applicants as deceptive. How many of those are truely deceptive and how many of those are falsely labled is not known. However, it also works the other way by allowing deceptive people to screw the machine and "pass" via countermeasures. This occurs because of people within the police forces blindly putting their faith in the idea the silly machine will weed out liers. They have been sold and swallowed a truck full of snake oil.

I for one (being one who was falsly accused deceptive by the CPS) am not willing to sit around and "take one for the team" knowing that idiots before and after me are now cops because they didn't have to take a poly while applying to the RCMP or were maybe lucky enough to pass their poly. That is truley all the poly is, a lucky coin toss as to whether you pass or fail. I am going to continue to be the "raving loonie" here in hopes that someone here will see the polygraphers tricks coming and avoid them. Too late for me but not for others.

It is also not too late for Ronin3333. Fight for what you want!

[Guest78]

Thought I'd check back to see if you responded MPOV...and you did. Like I mentioned before, I think the opinions of those that failed the poly are valuable. However, I don't use stats in my writing...ie 100% accurate in weeding applicants out. I don't have any real numbers from pre-employment polys. Likewise, please show me, or tell me where I can see original source data on the 50% failure rate for pre-employment polygraphs. I don't think it exisits. One more thing....some disagree with your raving lonnie bit because you don't provide use with substance. Your story is good...and we can all understand that....and empathize with you. I tell you right now that if i failed a poly, I too would be fighting it all the way and raising my voice. It is sometimes more productive to have a logical argument rather then make accusations on how all police think and generate random stats to support you.

MPOV...please keep your story alive on this thread....I learn from you....but I would learn more if you were a little more reasonable in forming your argument.

I also posted on a new thread "RCMP Polygraph" a piece of an article....as well, this thread could be used to continue the conversations pro/con of the poly.

[peichick]

Bas = I wouldn't worry too much, I know people who got a package with a score similiar and lower then yours! So your waiting game starts now as well!!

Cab = I should be medically cleared as of this afternoon, I needed a discharge paper from a car accident in 1999 sent over, which I faxed on Wednesday and that was all they were waiting on, so all good on that front. Tension what tension *insert smiley that is pulling out hair here* haha I tell you, I was told either Nov. 2nd or 30th one of those should be my date but nothing for sure.. or no papers signed. Everytime the phone rings my heart jumps, and I rush at the phone like a quarterback on a break away.

BCRCMP wanabee = you got it that there is nothing that is certain!! hehe I was talking to my recruitment officer because I figured there was a delay due to the virus that was up there, but nope... they are still sending troops out strong. In our province there is an opening for the Nov. 2 and the 30th. I know one guy is going on the 26th of Oct. as well.

Does anybody know if "goose" is gone, gone??

RCMP applicant - I am not sure really how it works... Right now my file is in NS, and I am from PEI.. but it is there because that is where PEI's security clearance is done. I hope it doesn't have to go to Regina as well.. I won't have any hair or nerves left.

Jag = I am sure your wife already knows you have a few loose ends! hehe but she loves you anyways. Fear not, you will be deemed mentally sane, although as someone else mentioned I think by the end of the process we are all probably a little nuttier then when we started! but man have we ever sharpened our patience levels!!

[ronin3333]

Guest78
I do still agree that the poly should be used in the police recruiting because it does indeed weed out alot of bad people. I for one saw about three people look around for the nearest door when it was mentioned in the RCMP info session. However as I told the recruiting officer when asked what I think of the polygraph (before my test) I told her that it is a good tool but shouldn't be used as the deciding factor for good recruits (ie recruits that have scored high on all the tests and also have done well in the interviews should not be dropped cause the machine says so, however for those that are already borderline the poly could be a great tool for the final decission.) I was assured thats how it was done...now before people think I may have been a bad candidate, my scores were 80% on the written and I ran the POPAT in 3:15. I did very well on the rest of my recruit stuff as well, I don't want to say the steps cause I don't want to mention the dept. I was going for. Anyway my point was that yes even I believe the poly is good, I just wanted to let people know to go in with the right mindset and to not be ill at all. As well make sure that you tell the recruit officer everything you can in the interview because they really don't like suprises in the pre-interview for the poly. Anyway enough about the poly I'm here to find out about the RCMP process, since thats what I'm in now. Can anyone tell me how long they had to what from the time they sent their package away till the time the RCMP called for an interview? If the PARE and RPAT scores make a diffrence in that I had 3:20 PARE and 3.91 RPAT. Thanks for the help.

PS: I will not be sueing the other dept. to have my file cleared, I will tell the RCMP my full story and hope for the best. If they say no then it wasn't ment to be. Later.

[Marcus]

ronin3333 - sounds like you have a good attitude... good luck with your application.

As for timelines it varies from Province to Province - check the RCMP Timelines Thread to compare and estimate what yours should be.

All that matters in a PARE time is that you pass, getting a great time does nothing to further your application... Just remember that you will be expected to improve on that time at Depot because of training, but even then a pass is a pass.

RPAT Scores... some people like to brag about them but again as long as you score high enough to get an application it means nothing.

I have seen many members who just made the cutt-off to receive an app and just passed the pare go on to be awesome constables. These tests don't mean anything but that you meet the minimum standards to move ahead in the hiring practice. What really counts is your interview and when you get to depot.... your marks, attitude and behaviour.

[MPOV]

Ronin,

You do have a fairly good attitude towards the whole thing (ie you aren't as pissed as I was) but I feel you are taking this all too layed back. Your attitude that if you don't get into the RCMP must be a sign that it was not meant for you to be a cop is really sad to me. Are you honestly starting to feel that maybe you really weren't meant to be a cop? Why did you apply in the first place if you had not researched the life and convinced yourself to almost 100% certainty (sorry Guest78) that this is what you wanted to do and be for the rest of your life?? You sound like you are giving up too quickly. Perserverence is probably one of the most important attributes of a good cop.

This is all I am going to say about this but it sadens me to know that this has happened to someone else and they aren't going to do anything about it when they still have the opportunity to. Trust me when I say that if you don't rectify this poly situation with the muni force they will divuldge the results to any other force you apply to. You will get deferred from them all. You will talk and try to convince the RCMP until you are blue i the face and it won't matter a bit. All because you are willing to let some polygrapher behind a prop box with wires and a fancy looking computer program determine that because you got nervous that you had to clear your throat you must be lieing and untrustworthy! If you know you where completely truthful why are you going to let one persons opinion that was formulated by some tracings of your BP and heart rate keep you from fullfilling your dream of being a cop?

Guest78,

Research the antipolygraph web site. It is loaded with verifiable info regarding the poly stats I have stated here. One story in particular was the LAPD chief himself being quoted as saying their poly is dferring half their applicants hence the 50%. I am not going to load this thread anymore with antipoly rhetoric. Will take it to your new thread.

[Maverick]

Anti-poly guests,

Can you please start a new thread for anti-poly conversation as in the past so we are not forced to read through your posts to get to the actual RCMP applicant posts. If you are not an RCMP applicant you shouldn't be on this thread. That way, if anyone wants to discuss the poly they can go to your thread. thanks.

[guest]

Maverick,

What part of MPOV's last sentence didn't you understand?