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Post by guest on Dec 19, 2002 13:52:05 GMT -5
mjays,
The point is really quit simple. You blamed my not passing the poly on my experimanting with drugs in high school ("Second, you wouldn't have the problem at all if you hadn't done drugs.. My opinion is, its your own fault for failing." ). Your mentality and powers of deduction was hinted to when you said that. "A" therefore concluded that if that was your way of thinking then you would probably blame a rape victim for bringing on her assault because she dressed provocatively. "Sorry miss, you should expect to get raped if you dress up in tight skirts like that, it is your own fault." Ridiculous and scary concidering you are trying to become a LE officer.
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jmays
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Post by jmays on Dec 19, 2002 14:41:46 GMT -5
Right, still though, I don't see how how being a victim is the same as you doing something willingly. I wouldn't assume or presume that the rape was her fault for dressing in a certain matter. That is rediculous and I would never think that. But anyway -- we are running around in circles here with this conversation. So if you dont mind refraining from making character judgements about what kind of Police Officer I would be, I would appreciate it. And Considering is spelled with an "s."
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Post by NDP1979 on Dec 19, 2002 15:13:53 GMT -5
SCORE: 3 to 3
You both have good points. Poly's are part of the hiring process and they will always be used, so if you want to be LEO you must abide by this, and using the knowledge that you know now, use the "system" in your favor.
Words of advice for those that have not taken a poly and don't want to get "screwed" like "guest" did:
STICK TO YOUR GUNS - even if you second guess yourself or think otherwise do not go back on your ORIGINAL statement. Obviouslly I am not telling you to lie and there are special circumstances when you should "retell" your story. Only answer the questions that are being asked - no more.
Does everyone agree?
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Post by guest on Dec 19, 2002 15:26:03 GMT -5
PS For your information "ridiculous" is spelled with an i. LOL. Little stabs like that only prove your lack of maturity and might hurt your chances of getting hired. Police are looking for maturity and the ability to shed insults like water off a ducks back. If you do get hired you will undoubtedly be bombarded daily with insults to you person, family, etc. Reacting towards insults like that will get you a one way ticket to the soup line.
NDP1979,
That is the point I am trying to get across to all potential applicants out there. Inform yourself on the workings of the poly. You may see some of their tactics coming and defend yourself against what happened to me. I am not implying for applicants to employ countermeasures (unless you really have something to hide) but inform yourself as to what to say and what not to say. As you put it, the police are going to continue to use this silly tool so learn about it before you have to take it.
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jmays
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Post by jmays on Dec 19, 2002 16:17:35 GMT -5
You shouldn't be talking about maturity here. For one, you are immature enough to come out and call the widely used, and accepted poly test witchcraft, which is pretty immature. Grow up and quit whinning about your own issues. And its easy for you to take stabs at me about what kind of police officer i will be, but hey -- look who's still in the running and who isn't. If you get personal with me, I will get personal with you. Its that whole Eye for an Eye thing. Anyway, I am through with this conversation. If you wish to continue it further, you can email me. I'm sure the readers are sick of this bickering.
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Post by NDP1979 on Dec 19, 2002 17:09:08 GMT -5
NOPE, THIS READER IS ENTERTAINED ;D
It appears that the score is now 4 to 4
- sorry now I'm being immature, oh and how has my speellling been guys? LOL - JK
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Post by T.COTE on Dec 20, 2002 12:13:23 GMT -5
jmays,
I commend you for ending this conversation. This isn't what this sight is about.
I think the point here is generally that L.E.O.'s and L.E.O. want to be's come from all kinds of backgrounds, none better than another.
Yes you can get screwed in this job, so look out for it.
And anyone looking at taking a poly should find out about it through the officers in that specific department to see what they are in for.
I don't think anyones concerns here are wrong, just different opinions.
I'm done.
T.Cote
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Post by George Maschke on Dec 21, 2002 15:38:47 GMT -5
NDP1979, I am a co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org, the website that has been referred to in this thread (though not specifically mentioned by name). AntiPolygraph.org is a non-profit, public interest website dedicated to exposing and ending polygraph waste, fraud, and abuse. Before you sit for a polygraph "test" regarding your disorderly conduct citation in Arizona, I suggest that your download AntiPolygraph.org's free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and read Chapters 3 & 4. Polygraph "testing" is a pseudoscientific fraud, and you need to know about it. Your experience with the LAPD pre-employment polygraph (which has about a 50% failure rate) is no indication that you have nothing to fear from a second polygraph examination, especially one in which you are a criminal suspect. One point you need to clarify with your lawyer is this: when prosecutors offer to drop charges if a suspect passes a polygraph examination, they typically require the suspect to sign a waiver stipulating beforehand that the results of the "test" will be admissible as evidence in court. Prosecutors usually don't make such offers unless they don't believe that they have enough evidence to win in court. The case against you is obviously very weak. You would be a fool to sign any such stipulation agreement, and if your lawyer were to advise you to do so, you should fire him. (You might also care to refer him to The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.) |
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Post by Hippie Hater on Dec 22, 2002 17:02:21 GMT -5
Hey Hippie, why do you have to post a reply to every single post? You hippie! NDP1979, I am a co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org, the website that has been referred to in this thread (though not specifically mentioned by name). AntiPolygraph.org is a non-profit, public interest website dedicated to exposing and ending polygraph waste, fraud, and abuse. Before you sit for a polygraph "test" regarding your disorderly conduct citation in Arizona, I suggest that your download AntiPolygraph.org's free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and read Chapters 3 & 4. Polygraph "testing" is a pseudoscientific fraud, and you need to know about it. Your experience with the LAPD pre-employment polygraph (which has about a 50% failure rate) is no indication that you have nothing to fear from a second polygraph examination, especially one in which you are a criminal suspect. One point you need to clarify with your lawyer is this: when prosecutors offer to drop charges if a suspect passes a polygraph examination, they typically require the suspect to sign a waiver stipulating beforehand that the results of the "test" will be admissible as evidence in court. Prosecutors usually don't make such offers unless they don't believe that they have enough evidence to win in court. The case against you is obviously very weak. You would be a fool to sign any such stipulation agreement, and if your lawyer were to advise you to do so, you should fire him. (You might also care to refer him to The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.) |
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Post by A on Dec 29, 2002 11:13:10 GMT -5
jmays, I also commend you for dropping this issue. I'm personally hoping that you'll also drop your application in any police departments that you apply for, but thats another issue.
Your views on drug use is extremely narrow. Guest even stated that he had used drugs to the department. So he was not trying to hide this. The department didn't seem to have a problem with this (as most these days understand that some experimentation will occur). The only one he was hurting was himself. Guest summed up what I was saying perfectly (I'm amazed that he had to spell it out for you). Also if what Guest states is true, then that would make him the victim, since the polygraph examiner is the one creating the situation. Therefore the analogy still holds. Frankly from his postings it is unfortunate what happened to him. The fact that this person is going out of their way to help others avoid making the same mistakes should be praised, not attacked. If you don't like it then don't read it, or at least don't respond. Your attitude that he got what he deserved because he used drugs is amazingly simplistic. In fact it's insulting.
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Post by A on Dec 29, 2002 11:26:31 GMT -5
I almost forgot to mention. How is calling the polygraph "withcraft" imature? That might be a bit of an exageration, but the facts from independent studies confirm that the polygraph is not an accurate tool. If it was it would be admisable in court. I guess the highest lawmakers in our respective countries, don't realize that it's "popular" otherwise I'm sure they would allow it. The Gerry Springer Show is popular too, yet it's still crap.
jmays, I wouldn't be too smug about the fact that you're still in the process. I am too, but it doesn't guarantee that either of us will make it any futher than guest did.
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jmays
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Post by jmays on Dec 29, 2002 12:11:27 GMT -5
rright.. at this point, I am inclined to believe that "a" is the same person as "guest" since neither one of them are registered, and there is such a great defense for one another. At any rate, I thought I made myself clear in stating that I was dropping the issue? Is that so difficult to understand. If you want to continue this discussion further, I can be emailed. My email address is sauoxl@softhome.net. I will only say that if you people are this gay, then you don't need to be LEO's. Becayse yall are being pretty gay.
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Post by A on Dec 29, 2002 20:46:02 GMT -5
Actually we aren't the same person. Our ip addresses should verify that.
I'm dropping this too, since your last response gives a pretty good idea of the type of person that we're dealing with here.
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Post by guest on Dec 30, 2002 16:23:10 GMT -5
No need to drop this thread. I beg to differ with T.COTE. and say that this is exactly what message boards are for. The free and un censored exchange of information and view points regarding a topic of common interst.
A and I are not the same person, we just hold similar view points and ideas. We are both intelligent and informed ourselves regarding the fraudulent poly. Sad to say I informed myself too late for me to fulfill my dream of becoming a LEO. jmays, you should really let your gaurd down and review some of the literature regarding the poly before you take one. If not, the winds of fate will blow in your direction the same way they did for me and you will not become the LEO you hope. As "A" put it, should you fail in your endevour it will probably be in the publics best interest as I personally shudder at the thought of you enforcing our laws based on your posts and the mentality and demenour you exude.
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jmays
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Post by jmays on Dec 30, 2002 19:37:23 GMT -5
Oh my... Here we go again with the personal attacks... Really, I don't think you are serving anyone by those statements, and I have made numerous attempts to get you to email me, rather than ramble on here, and fill up this board with the endless bickering. But to enlighten you two "guests," I will go through a scenario. I can imagine it now... I have already passed my Police Officers Entrance Exam with a 97, I go to take my Physical Agility Test, and pass it with flying colors. Mental evaluation, after interview, I pass, and pass. It comes time when they call me in for a polygraph exam. I speak with Ernie Meyer (In charge of recruiting in my city) and I inform him, that there are these two really cool guys on this message board on the internet, and they are telling me that the polygraph is a tool for witchcraft, and that I shouldn't take the exam. Even though thousands of people go through this same process every year and it is a common tool to find out who are the big druggies, and thief's, and whatever else, that the interviewers couldn't tell in the previous stages of the application process. I can almost imagine what Ernie would say! "John (that's my name), you are an idiot, and you will not become a police officer in this city because you are a complete and total moron! Have a nice day!" And yet, my hopes and dreams of becoming a Law Enforcement Officer have been ruined because I listened to two half-wits on the internet. Yes, I can see it now. I THINK I'LL DO IT!! Thanks so much guys! You have enlightened me to such a high degree. I don't know what I could have done without you! I mean, if I don't take your advise, I could possible have a career in a profession that is admirable and exemplary! I know now from your personal remarks towards me, and the ever enlightening information you have bestowed upon me, that indeed, law enforcement is not the answer. I won't continue with my application process, because at least for "guest," you couldn't hack it, and I shouldn't be able to either. Naa, screw you guys. I think I'll take the exam and get onto the police department, while you guys are on some message board whining and complaining that you weren't treated fairly. Idiots. Absolute Idiots. No need to drop this thread. I beg to differ with T.COTE. and say that this is exactly what message boards are for. The free and un censored exchange of information and view points regarding a topic of common interst. A and I are not the same person, we just hold similar view points and ideas. We are both intelligent and informed ourselves regarding the fraudulent poly. Sad to say I informed myself too late for me to fulfill my dream of becoming a LEO. jmays, you should really let your gaurd down and review some of the literature regarding the poly before you take one. If not, the winds of fate will blow in your direction the same way they did for me and you will not become the LEO you hope. As "A" put it, should you fail in your endevour it will probably be in the publics best interest as I personally shudder at the thought of you enforcing our laws based on your posts and the mentality and demenour you exude. |
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