The good, the bad, and the ugly

[karlcore@recoilentertainment.c]

I'm glad I found this place. I really have a lot of questions. I hope I can keep it brief and readable.
I am interested in becoming an officer, but have a few items that I think may become stumbling blocks. Here's my list.

1. Drugs - never did anything major, just marijuana. Last date of regular use was about 10 years ago. Last actual use was 5.  Anabolic Steroids - last use over a year ago. Length of use - a year
2. Tattoos - I have a lot. As in, fully sleeved. One, on my leg, is known as a "crucified skinhead", which is a NON RACIST skinhead theme. Not at all a gang thing, but could be easily misconstrued
3. Credit - pretty average from what I can tell.
4. Job History - there's nothing really in my job history longer than 9 months, though all jobs in the past two years have been in the same industry
5. Driving record - rather bad. Lots of speeding (10mph). Nothing serious.
6. Civil Judgement - there may be a civil judgement out there that I've been trying to fight for a while

On the surface, the above things seem to be real problems. I guess my question is how much certain things weigh in comparison to others. I am *extremely* intelligent (genius IQ, advance placement throughout school, 3.2 college GPA), and have never been convicted (or even charged) with anything other than the aforementioned traffic violations.

I'd really like some advice on whether to even bother trying with this. Becoming a police officer is an idea I've flirted with for close to 10 years. I think now is the time to go for it, but I'm well aware of the effect that my shortcomings can have on the process.

What can be done to overcome some of these problems? Letters of recommendation from other officers/ persons in Law Enforcement? (I have friends in CIA, FBI, DEA, local law enforcement).

Thanks in advance for all responses!

[Charlie]

Karl--You paint an interesting portrait of yourself.  ;D  Overall, I would say that your chances are questionable based on your post. BUT,.....keep in mind it depends upon WHO you apply with for a job, the agency's policies  and their level of flexibility. Some departments are quite strict in the application of their hiring criteria. So, please keep that in mind.

Here are a few brief points as to why I say this in reference to your posting:

* You mention that you last "regularly" used marijuana some 10-years ago but last used about 5-years ago. This might be a problem because broadly speaking, a lot of departments may look past this IF,....someone only had limited use of this drug. As in, "experimented" with this drug only. Usually, departments may go with someone who only experimented but "regular past use" may be an issue.

* Tattoos MAY be a problem since you mention you have a lot of them. I am not an expert about the tattoo issue and I am uncertain as to how departments generally view this expecially since it is currently a popular trend. I do know that some departments don't have a problem with tattoos but some may have some sort of policy about this issue. As in: how visible are the tattoos? Could they be construed as offensive to the public? Or something like that. Remember, as a LE officer, you're supposed to ideally present a neutral image.

* Credit - I don't see a problem there but most departments will check up on this in the background process. 8)

* Job History - Depending on your age, having multiple jobs within a short period of time generally indicates a level of instability. Most departments definitely prefer someone with a stable work history UNLESS you are in a some kind of field where this could be the norm.

* Driving record - Obviously, if one becomes an LE officer, you should have a decent driving record to begin with. At some departments, the department's automotive insurance agency may mandate some sort of driving record requirements as well in order for the department to insure thier officers driving the insured vehicles. if you have multiple tickets within a short period of time, this can also be viewed as a negative and a potentially disqualifying factor. Improve your record if at all possible for yourself. It also helps reduce your insurance premiums too!

* Civil Judgement - I think it will depend upon the overall circumstances surrounding this issue and what is at issue.  

What it looks like to me on the surface is a bunch of esssentially "small things" that add up to something bigger.

Ultimately, if you want to know something more definite about your chances, you could contact an agency in your area you are possibly interested in getting on board with. Contact the recruiter by phone, email or in person and frankly discuss the things you've mentioned.  8) My vote would be that you'll get a more definite view of what your chances will be at this time. Perhaps, with the passge of time, some of these issues MAY become non-issues. It would then perhpas cast you in a much more favorable light.

Again, it greatly depends upon WHO you apply with and how flexible they are about some of the issues you mentioned. Departments can sometimes greatly differ with their hiring qualications and process.

Charlie

[karlcore@recoilentertainment.c]

Thanks for the response Charlie.  I'm glad I found this board, because its not like I can go to the department and say "Hey, here's all this pretty messed up stuff, whattaya think?"

1. With the drugs, I used more than my fair share of marijuana in high school. Probably every weekend. Though compared to some people I know, it was a small amount, I doubt that any recruiter would qualify as "experimentation".  The incident 5 years ago was when I was at a party literally 2 weeks after leaving my first wife. I think the stress level factor weighs greatly in more-or-less negating that incident's weight.
2. With the tattoos, some could definitely be construed as offensive if they're *stared at*. The design is purposely complicated so that I don't offend kids, etc. But when you really look at it, it is somewhat shocking. My thing with the tattoos is this - a. I'd be more than happy to cover them up on duty. I used to selll advertising for the 8th largest newspaper in the US and wore long sleeves everyday of the week, even when at after-hours meet & greet stuff.
I got the tattoos while working in the music industry where, looking like a rockstar is nearly encouraged. (Not that I had any pressure into getting them, its just that I also had no professional need NOT to get them).
3. After checking my credit recently, I could say that if anything, it establishes my moral character. My credit used to be royally f**ked, but in the last 2 years I have turned it around 180 degrees.
4. Of all the things I have going against me, job history may be among the top of the list.  With explanation, it might be OK. For the last few years I've been selling Harleys. Left one dealership for a better job, left the 2nd for an even better one, left the 3rd due to moral reasons. During that time, I've been working in the music industry, flip flopping back & forth between full & part time. Again leaving for better opportunities and/ or moral reasons.
5. To revisit the driving record thing, I wonder how much weight it carries that I drive a lot. In the music industry, I'd drive a good 500+ miles a week back & forth from NYC and Baltimore and, as an outside salesman for the newspaper I drove a lot. I have a LOT of speeding tickets, but they're all minor (like I said, 10mph). I just have a heavy foot, IMO
6. Civil case - I have an ex-GF who *gave* me money who, upon breaking up with her is now deciding that it was a loan.

My thing is, I know that I'll do an excellent job with the intelligence tests and the oral board/ moral stuff, and I'm hoping that will overcome the other issues.

Like I said in the original post, do they even accept/ take into consideration personal references from LEOs?  I'm not trying to circumvent the system, but feel that the statements from those people could further establish moral character.  I have a genuine interest in enforcing the laws of my country and doing my part to protect its citizens from crime.

[karlcore@recoilentertainment.c]

one more thing about the tattoos:

In this big metropolitan area, with its obvious drug problems and fair share of organized crime, I look upon them as an asset.

Think about it: you're a coke dealer and some guy covered in tattoos is looking to get some dope. Are you gonna even entertain the thought that he's a cop? No way! I'm the perfect narc!  ;D

[JimCMR]

Karl;

As a former Commissioner, who did hiring of Police officers, I'll tell you honestly, that you would not be hired by me, based on what you have told us.  I want police officers who can set a good example, and represent my department with some class, and I feel you come up short.

I think you would be wasting your time trying to get hired by a city, but who knows, this country elected Clinton twice.  There may be some hope for you.

JimCMR

[karlcore@recoilentertainment.c]

Thanks for the Blunt honesty Jim, even if it isn't what I "wanted" to hear.
Perhaps my view on things like morality is a little distorted. My feeling is that, in relation to other people I know, I'm a pretty clean character. But maybe that view is distorted by the people I know and the things I've seen. I grew up with car theives, drug dealers, outlaw bikers, everything. While I grew up with these people, I was never really more than an observer.  Sure, I've gotten into my fair share of fights, etc. but that's how it goes when you grow up like I did.

Its funny to me to hear stories (from LEOs themselves) that Baltimore and DC Metro Police used to hire convicted felons, yet hear that the tattoos and bad driving record could be disqualifiers. I understand the point behind it, but in looking at the grand picture, those things are small potatoes, IMO.

Jim, can you be more specific in what you mean by "represent your department with some class", and how that relates to my concerns?

[Glenn]

"this country elected Clinton twice"

yes, but, Clinton didn't inhale....and he never had sex with that woman....LOL

Well Karl, you have some really great infomation here. I have to agree with Jim and the others, you will have a up hill battle to say the least.
Anyway, have you given any thought on being a Corrections officer? Maybe not the hard core criminal types, but with the younger people. Some of the youth today are lost. It seems that you may have some excellant background that could be used to help some of the youths get back on track.
Just a thought.
Whatever you do, the best to you Karl.
Glenn

[Charlie]

Karl--You make some valid points here and there through out your posts.  And you seem to be a pretty up front and honest person.  Good or bad, I hope you'll constructively accept and consider the opinions rendered here about what some of us think about your overall qualifications and issues.

Again, with emphasis, it will depend upon the department you apply with for a position.  My bet is that a larger municipal agency MAY take a look at you but I think you'd honestly have an uphill battle to get on board.  Some of the issues you've commented about being "just small potatoes" in comparision to other things may be just that but,.....generally speaking.....a lot of folks who do the hiring and firing in the LE departments commonly view past behavior as a gauge/predictor of future behavior that can potentially lead to bigger and more serious issues.  Is this rule a fair assessment and can be applied to everyone?  Probably not. Obviously, you can't put everyone into the same mold.....but,....my bet is that the only a minority truly change themselves for the better permanently.  Perhaps you are one of the minority.  LE agencies know they're not going to hire Jesus Christ to be a cop. And if you thnk about it, we probably wouldn't want someone like Christ to be a cop in the first place!  So, my point is, keep this in mind because it is a reality.

I don't think I have a good response to your comments otherwise but I hope in some way I/we've helped you out.  Even if it might not be an answers you want to hear. But you have to be honest with yourself about this process.  Often times, good or bad, getting on board as a cop is a difficult process.  The letters you've mentioned from other LE officers MAY help you out to some degree but most likely, a progressive agency is going to look at the "big picture" of you.  Just ask your LE buddies about what they experienced to get on board their departments.  I think you'll likely hear some similar experiences.

No matter what you decide, best of luck.....but be completely honest and objective with yourself about this issue and perhaps consider asking your friends in the profession about it for some insider's view advice.

Charlie

[JimCMR]

Karl;

When I mentioned representing my department with class, I was refering to situations like visiting a school to talk to the kids.  You may be wearing the "Summer" uniform, such as a short sleeve shirt, and have all these tattos showing, or maybe the Chamber of Commerce meeting to discuss local crime, or just being in the public in general.

I have nothing against tattos, my son has some, I don't.

Tattos do not make or break a person, but in some minds, they send a message.

So it is a matter of perspective.

JimCMR

[karlcore@recoilentertainment.c]

I appreciate everyone's responses.
I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that I will need to wait a bit longer to establish a few things, not the least of which is that my past indiscretions are just that: the past.
It will allow the driving record to work itself out (the majority of the violations were just under 3 years ago) and establish that the anabolic steroids & marijuana are things of the past and the few burps on the credit report will be overshadowed by my stellar credit these days.
At that point, I must have faith that the tattoos will be seen as the only negative.

[Romano]

Karl, just go for it and be up front and honest as you have been here.  I personally don't think tattoos would disqualify you from applying.  I remember seeing an NYPD cop on tv during the SEP 11 tragedy who was wearing a short sleeve shirt and had both forearms covered in tattoos.  Some depts will look negatively at tattoos, but I'm sure there are others who would disregard the tattoos if they belonged to a suitable applicant.  At any rate I wish you the best of luck.