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Post by Romano on Aug 1, 2002 2:23:20 GMT -5
In a city just north of where I live, people are screaming police brutality because police officers were caught on tape using a tazer on a handcuffed woman. After a high speed chase in which the driver of the car was taken into custody without incident, the passenger in the car became quite belligerent with the police and they had to use force to restrain her. Once she was in cuffs she spit on one of the officers and they then used the tazer on her. People may not think so but spitting is quite serious due to the fact that there may be blood in the spit, or the person may be infected with a disease like HIV or hepatitus etc. I think that the cops here did not act wrongly and that it's only the media in this case (among others) which make the police look like they were abusive or were using excessive force. It sucks that the media tend to show cops in a negative light whenever they get their hands on one of these videos, but I guess it just comes with the territory. Just my thoughts.
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Post by Hopeful on Aug 1, 2002 13:00:54 GMT -5
Well I'm not a cop quite yet but I'm pretty positive that tasering a handcuffed prisoner is not right.  |
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Post by Moose 32 on Aug 1, 2002 18:28:56 GMT -5
I don't like to make judgements without full knowledge of the incident, but using a taser on someone is serious stuff. If the officers in question did use the taser on someone in handcuffs, the only reason to justify doing so was their inability to handle the prisoner without putting themselves or others (including the prisoner) at risk of bodily harm. Where did this happen?
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Post by Romano on Aug 1, 2002 19:00:40 GMT -5
Moose, it happened in Edmonton. The woman spit on them once and was trying to do it again and then they tazered her. I would view being spit on as a serious issue which has the potential to cause the officers harm due to disease being transmitted etc.
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Post by Hopeful on Aug 1, 2002 23:54:54 GMT -5
I went on a ridealong and the officer got spit on by a real dirtbag. It was during the search. After they tossed him in the cell the officer just cleaned it off; didn't seem to faze him a bit. It's probably all just routine stuff I would think. I presume somewhere in the report would be "dirtbag (client i mean) spit on me".
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Post by Charlie on Aug 2, 2002 1:40:18 GMT -5
OKay folks....I see the issue is "Taser or not to Taser, that IS the question."  One thing you all have to remember is it is easy to second guess WHAT, exactly, went on during this situation in question. Fact is, WHERE is everyone getting their information? My guess would be that most people commonly get it from the media. Unfortunately, the media is not held often enough to ethical standards of truthfulness. Especially when it comes to cops involved in critical incidents.  Just remember that sometimes things are not always as they may appear at first glance. I would dare say as well that this train of thought may possibly apply to this incident with the handcuffed woman being tasered as well. I must express some concerns as well. I mean, based on what's posted here (since I don't know anything else about this incident), it suggests highly that the officers actions were inappropriate and unjustified! BUT!.....do we know all the facts and circumstances surrounding the incident in question? No we do not! Remember, there could very well be facts, information and circumstances currently unknown to us that may shed this situation into a whole different light! So, don't be too judgmental. It's not over till the fat lady sings. And I often don't put a whole lot of faith into the mass media. is what they're all about. And based on my experiences, they'll do just about anything at ANYONE's expense to get their ratings, circulation, sensationalism and money. It's what I firmly believe they're all about. Charlie |
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Post by Storm on Aug 10, 2002 22:58:25 GMT -5
Where did this incident happen? I hate to sound subjective but I can only assume the United States. I only say this because I live in Canada (that big friendly country to the north) and such an incident would have been heard of pretty well everywhere. My opinion however, barring the fact I do not know the full circumstanses, is it sounds a bit excessive and inappropriate. Pepper spray not an option? Pain compliance? If she were not handcuffed then I could see tazering her to stop any injury to other officers, but cuffed? I am a campus police officer and applicant for the RCMP. Our campus covers a major teaching hospital and more than once we have been subject to spitting. One incident in particular the subject actually bite the inside of his cheeks to create a blood flow, then he bagan to spit. We simply used a pillow case to cover his head.
I would be interested to hear where this case heads and in what city it happened.
Storm
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Post by Romano on Aug 12, 2002 3:33:48 GMT -5
Storm, actually it wasn't in the US it was right here in our ever-so-friendly little country known as Canada. It was in Edmonton and I actually have not heard anything about it since but I will keep you posted.
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Post by Storm on Aug 12, 2002 9:40:05 GMT -5
Thanks Romano, I didn't read the post that mentioned the city earlier. That sort of news usually travels across the country pretty fast.
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Post by Cpl Mike on Aug 23, 2002 21:47:26 GMT -5
Whoa,partner!! Storm, don't think Canada is immune and above the brutality issue! Just because you guys are "slightly north " doesn't make your policing better.Much of the tactics and training are quite similar on both sides of the border and you'll find agencies in Canada/US that cross train one another. The issues of brutality,racism,sexism, and police corruption rear their ugly head often in Canada also(maybe you don't really pay attention to that). On the issue of use of force , it most be reasonable ,not exceeding the minimum needed to subdue the threat, legal , and within dept policy/training/guidlines.I commented on a recent incident about" perceived" brutality by the media on this site( Head Bangin' in 'Wood).policing and the techniques employed to go about it are constantly evolving, but in my 12+ yrs of patrol ,when the fights on , its all fair until the "cuffs" are on!My agency here in L.A. wouldn't allow you to deploy a taser(or similar neuro-disruptor device) on a handcuffed suspect, but then again , some agencies outside of california see our use of the rip-hobble device(replaced the old "hogtying" of the cord cuffs) as barbaric (we use the rip-hobble to restrain kicking/flailing combative suspects). As you are on a site for law enforcement bear in mind what Charlie said , and don't be too judgemental-keep a neutral opinion and let the facts answer the problem .If you worked here in California as a Campus Law Enforcement Officer, you'd run into the same problems as any municipal/county/stae police officer!!Nothing wrong with campus policing , but sometimes working in a "nicer" (meaning still not totally safe) patrol environment can shield you from the grimer side of the job..Good Luck on your RCMP app!
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Post by Hopeful on Aug 24, 2002 0:15:22 GMT -5
Good points Mike but you come across as almost condoning the incident. Admittedly there may be information that we are not aware of but I'm sure that tasering a cuffed prisoner would be a major nono in any state or country.
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Post by Romano on Aug 25, 2002 5:34:05 GMT -5
Its good to see you back on the board Cpl Mike. I have yet to hear anything else about this incident but I saw a press release on TV shortly after which showed an Edmonton Police rep saying that the officers were faced with a belligerent woman who was spitting blood on them repeatedly and that there was nothing else they could do to stop her from spitting. I am kind of on the fence with this one because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what transpired before the tazering occurred. In the same respect however the officers must have been faced with quite the situation in order to deploy the tazer on her. Hopefully it will work out for the best for all involved. Oh and by no strectch of the imagination are "we" (canadians) free from racism, police brutality etc. Its something that you wish would not happen at all, but unfortunately from time to time these incidents have a way of popping up.
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Post by Storm on Aug 25, 2002 21:31:54 GMT -5
Hey there, I think my comment, that big friendly country to the north, was taken a little to seriously.  Usually such incidents get a a lot more coverage here in Canada. I realize that such issues as brutality,racism,sexism, and police corruption exsist here, when they do I usually pay attention to them. I still find it hard to justify tasering a handcuffed subject. But, I was not there, I do not have all the facts, nor do I know the officers involved. I do know the type of situation on a first hand level, so I draw my opinion from that. Incidents such as these usually cause a bigger splash here in Canada and are carried in more detail. in closing sorry if I offended any of the U.S. law enforcement officers by insinuating that they are the only ones who are involved in acts of brutality,racism,sexism, and police corruption. Storm |
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Post by Cpl mike on Aug 27, 2002 3:03:41 GMT -5
Thanks for welcoming me back, Romano!(now to get my personal id # again-LOLOL!) Storm ,this is not a knock on your views 'cause here on this site, the more opinions the better. For the record, I do not, nor will I ever condone cruelty to suspects/defendants in custody.The laws and policies regarding arrest and detention of citizens in North America (meaning Canada,
USA , and even Mexico) is by far more humane than many nations .The incident in Edmonton, like most has to deal with limited policy toward use of force, and the reactionary mind set of many modern officers who are taught to fear using force to control a situation- this causes escalation by many belligerent elements in society , and ultimately leads to disasterous results(i.e poor shootings, excessive force,improper tactics). I'm willing to bet that the officers involved in that incident didn't have the type of spit masks used by many corrections Agencies to place over the suspects head.Mgm't types see that as unneeded extra costs, and many agency heads-goaded by civilian mgm't ,are stuck in the reactionary mgm't attitude,i.e. if it never happens , why prepare or train ,or equip. for it?The taser is a neuro-disruptor.It does not cause any long term injuries to suspect, and while the idea of electricity scares many, I've had to experience it during AOT taser trng training , and can tell you that it feels uncomfortable, and will immediately put a combative suspect out of commission, but the only painful thing a suspect will experience is if the actual barbs carrying the wires are fired into a suspects body(its like being stuck by a needle , and that requires minor medical attention) having experienced a 10 sec charge- I was knocked to the ground and dazed for about 3-5 mins, but got up and walked it off,within 30 mins I was as good as new- I'd say that the use of the taser made more sense(in lieu of an available face mask) than use of a baton/PR-24,OC spray, for physical restraint.
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Usually such incidents get a a lot more coverage here in Canada. I realize that such issues as brutality,racism,sexism, and police corruption exsist here, when they do I usually pay attention to them. I still find it hard to justify tasering a handcuffed subject. But, I was not there, I do not have all the facts, nor do I know the officers involved. I do know the type of situation on a first hand level, so I draw my opinion from that.