background

[Chriz]

If you have learned from your past then apply. Don't worry about what the recruiter says because there is little you can do about it. Remember, always hold your head high. If you know any cops you know that many probably would'nt be hired back if they had to do the poly again. Don't get yourself caught up in this belief that you need to be perfect. The guys I used to work with were very far from perfect. If you are sent packing because of your past then at least you have done what you could.

As an aside, the poly is a strange device. Agencies look to it for hiring, but, you know what is not very popular is having LOE's repeat it over the course of their career. Labor codes aside, the LEO' I used to work with would'nt have considered the notion. So do what you can and if it doesn't work then accept the reality of your situation.

[John Smith]

I agree with you Cpl Mike. INTEGRITY is important to me. I know I'll end up doing the right thing. It's just hard, because there is a good argument not to.

I only have one other question. An honest answer would really be appreciated on this.

If an application like this rolled onto your desk would you even consider it? Before you say yes I'd consider it. Please keep in mind that your job would be as a recruiter. So basically your ass is on the line if you recommend questionable recruits. Would you take the risk of recommending a candidate who admited to doing these things?
positive attributes that would be on the application:
1)university degree (BA psychology major, reputable university)
2)Good to excellent score on written test
3)top 2-5 percent in terms of physical strength.
4)No criminal convictions or problems with the police
5)3 speeding tickets in total, during first 2 years of driving.

I'm assuing that you're a police officer Cpl Mike. What would the reality be with this? Also what is the view on the Amsterdam incident. Would the department even recognize that it was not illegal? Or is it still the same as a crime in their eyes? I would like your answer on this, not the "correct" ie Public relations answer.

Thanks.

[guest]

John,

I am taking the soured view that I have regarding this post because I "WAS" in your boots up to about 3 months ago.

I have a university degree.
I have a college diploma.
Two speeding tickets both during my first year of driving.
Excelent physical condition.
Scored well on every police exam/interview taken.
Not a sigle run in with the law.

I too thought I would make an excelent candidate. I did some stupid things in my life (what kid hasen't?!) but that was during my youth (10 to 14 years old) I am now early 30's. I "used" to pride my self on my honesty and integrety. I would give back the teller an extra 5 cents if she gave it to me in error. I was a strong believer in good thins come to good people and karma. Everyone you ask about me would have nothing but shining comments about my character, work habits, relations in work, play, etc.

LE application processes have started to change my views. I went the honest route and opened my life as a book to the recruiters. During interview and the dreaded/joke poly some of the things I said/revealed became taken out of context and used against me. I can never reverse what has happend and will never be able to apply for a LE job again based on one forces so called confessions they interogated out of me! (suspisciously enough they can't find the tape?? hmm?) Read the horror stories on the poly and you will see why I have a thicker skin and my back up towards recruiters. I am not saying all are like the ones I ran into but I will never trust one again.

I am not alone in my veiws of recruitment proccesses and the poly. Read everything you can before you make the same mistake I did. I wanted nothing more in life than to be a cop and that has been taken away from me forever based on a recruiters nonrecommendation and point of view towards my person.

After 30 some years in this wacky world you learn that telling the truth is not always the best option. Trust me when I say I wish that weren't true. There is nothing I want more in this world than to live beleiving that people are honest and care about their fellow man. In real life this is not the truth. You have to look out for yourself in certain situations. I look at some of the people that made it as cops and I laugh. I know in my heart that I would have been better at that job than them. Some applied on a whim or a joke amongst freinds and are now living my dream! I know some of them that have done worse things than I in life and got hired. I look back on all this and say to myself "If I just didn't open my fat mouth about some aspects of my past I would be there too". These are not aspects that are disqualifying or illegal or immoral facts either. Some recruiter took it upon himself to decide that I was not fit to hire and fabricated out of context confessions and staements to ensure I would never get hired.

All I can say is if you are anything like me, serious concider your options before you open your life to these recruiters who absolutely and definitively control your LE career. One wrong word or run in with one and your entire future in LE is done!

Sorry but that is my take. I really, really wish it wasn't!

[John Smith]

hmmm, You're scaring me Guest. You sound exactly like me. Including the giving back change when someone else screws up, because you don't want to be dishonest (it's happened many times).
I'm going to be thinking long and hard about this. Plus my head is telling me that you are absolutely right while my heart tells me that I'm a good honest person and that I shouldn't withold information on past mistakes.

-Any chance you could give a bit more details on the poly/confessions? IE what you think exactly disqualified you?

[guest]

Read some of the posts on antipoly.org. I fell for almost every mistake in the book. One example:

I said during the interview and pre interview questionaire I tried drugs 5 times in high school. During the poly interrogation he/she told me to say I had tried it 10 or 15 tmes to clear you head before I hook up the machine. He/she writes I confessed to doing drugs 15 times and I therefore lied during the interiew and was disqualified for life! this is only one of three falsified confessions he/she wrote about me. I must have cut him/her off in trafic during my drive to my poly that morning??!! LOL


This is not quite the situation you are in but guarented if you state your history you will be dead in the water. Personally after my experiences I would much rather have been a little less forthcoming and open during my process and taken my chances later. Once you are in (a cop) you will have a much easier time trying to fight instances in your past should they arise. Right now you will be concidered a liability to any force. Think about it very hard. Do you honestly feel in your heart that if you disclose commiting a number of undetected theft crimes that they would want to hire you?

[Your call]

I got to agree with guest, if you can withold, whithold, if you did something and were never caught dont open your mouth. Your just making the job easy for the recruiter if you go say you stole apurse but were never caught. Bull crap they will say well that was in the past your on the first train to unemployment. Happened to me, was 100 percent honest, they didnt even wait one day to send my letter of denial. This was for smoking pot 3 years prior.

[John Smith]

I reread your post Guest. It's not the polygraph that worries me, its whether or not I'd make it to the polygraph if I spilled my guts on all the mistakes I've made. Thats the part that has me puzzled. You made it to the polygraph. Over here you would only go to the poly after basically being considered for employment.

I'd still like to hear Cpl Mike's response to my question about what he'd do if this application came across his desk. I'm pretty sure he'd throw it in the garbage. No point taking risks when you can go through a pile more applications. Human nature in the work place has taught me that most people CYA while at work. (Cover your @ss).

[guest]

In retrospect I really don't think it is any of the police forcs business what I did as a kid. I know some stuff was stupid and I have since grown up. I am not the same person mentally or emotionally. They also have no right asking questions about ones sex life which they do in the poly behind closed doors. Most forces recruiting tactics and approach are illegal by all labor codes and laws. They are above the law it seems when it comes to most aspects. Most municiple forces also don't fall under federal freedom of info and privacy laws so you never find the real reason for deferals. They defer you and tell you to apply again in a couple of years hoping you just go away.

Yes I did get to the poly stage but prior to that I only divudged past occurances that I felt were not of any real consequence (growing up stuff). During the poly I "spilled my guts" nievly thinking the damn polygraph was infalluble. It is a hoax! Like I said before, nothing I said during the poly was a felony, morally reprehensible, or preverse but the polygrapher saw it fit in his eyes to up his "confession" stats at my LE career's expense. I also thought that honesty was the best policy, I rolled the dice and lost. I now know better but it is too late for me. I just really hope you, or any other decent applicants out there don't make the same mistake I did. It has been brutal to get over knowing that 1.5 hours (poly interview) of my young, neive life determined the rest for me. Be informed. The recruiters and polygraphers are not omnipotent but they sure want you to think that! They are only human like yourself and guarunteed they have made some of the same mistakes but would never admit it.

[Drakor]

As always I believe in being honest. It's entirely true that you can tell too much about yourself. Believe me your BI will dig and dig and dig until you dead in the water. That 's even he wants to dig that far. They have alot of pressure and alot of applicants to investigate. Most investigations only take a few days( calling your employers mailing out references and maybe visiting your neighbors). So if something stands out then they will most likely send you the letter.
As far as the poly is concerned...... this test can only tell whether or not your lying( sometimes) This test can't explain or even tell the difference between Pot, cocaine or steriods. It can't tell you what you stole. Only that you are lying about stealing. It can't tell if your joking around and it can't make change and it doesn't know the difference between 5 dollars and one millions dollars.
I know alot of cops that make me laugh because they were the ones we whispered about in high school. They were the one who slept in class and made completely stone headed remarks in the back of the class.
Most investigators are too busy to call the surrounding agencies to see if you've applied maybe they will if you give them the ammunition. Most agencies don't hold onto the applications any longer then five years if they did then the records department would be the size of Texas.
There are many sites here devoted to informing you about the poly. I suggest you read them. And as far as your information no harm no foul. Nobody knows what you know....... maybe you dreamed it

[Cpl Mike]

It seems that " Guest" gives some interesting issues toward applying, but if were up to me( and at present I don't workas a Back Grounds Inv-interviewed for that position at work but scored no#5 for only 2 positions ) I'd go on what i'd find in your crim. history(if there was/wasn't one ) and contacts with references. Face it- we live in a sometimes hypocritical society-one in which police officers are expected to be honest while the community leaders are corrupt(Here in L.A. we've had city council members CAUGHT buying and using hard drugs,sexually harrassing workers and even "misappropriating" Gov't funds,but they ARE still on city council!!!They'd think nothing of firing an officer or having them incarcerated!!!) That hypocricy shouldn't stop you from what you want- apply ,test, and succeed.You must make your decision alone,not based on what I, nor,"Guest" ,nor what anyone else says.If you've thought about this long enough(and I think you have) then you're ready to take a "shot" at it.No one is going to "trick" you out of a job-if you can't expect to be scrutinized as an applicant, then you won't be able to handle it later throught the numerous bogus I.A. complaints and false citizen "beefs" that will be thrown at you during your potential career.I think you already have the attitude to succeed to put it into effect(P.S. have you CALLED the agency/Dept you want and spoken to an investigator or someone in recruiting about your concerns??)

[Cpl Mike]

Also, to add to "Guests" posts- SOUNDS like you ,my friend, applied to LAPD!!! Not making light of your situation,but there seems to be some type of questionable behavior on the part of the polygraph operator , if they actually did tell you to change your pre screening interview questionaire answers.Did you sign it? I'd file a protest with that depts human resources/personnel Dept, and demand a review with their civil service commission!!!If you've lived an honest life for the most part,John, then APPLY!!!The background inv can seem daunting but it is not the " inquisition"(Drakor said it best about the truth issue-if you didn't have criminal intent in you thoughts then you aren't a criminal-execpt for those few people in society who are criminally INSANE and don't know the difference between wrong and right-THEY EASILY PASS LIE DETECTOR TESTS,LOLOLOL!!!)-PLS!!! Contact the agency,heck walk right in there and meet'em face to face,apply and go from there....

[John Smith]

Thanks for the reply Cpl Mike.
I actually had my mind made up before I even posted on this forum. I'll come clean on everything that I'm asked and think might be relevant. I don't want to feel the guilt, and worry that goes with basically being dishonest. I didn't like it when I screwed up in my past and I'm sure not going to like it for a future. That pretty much decided it right there for me. There is also the fact that as Dakor put in one of his posts, if one person knows about it, then thats one person too many. If I do get into the police, I definately don't want to be in a situation where someone could try and blackmail me . Plus lets face it finding out about someones past isn't too hard. I'm untrained and I could probably find out all the dirt I want to (ie talk to the ex friends/enemies not the friends and families). So a trained background investigator could probably find most of the stuff. If I come clean, I never have to worry about that. I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes (it's going to be a bit though-ie a few months).
Thanks for the input everyone.